IT BEGAN WITH A ROAR
We had no idea that our decision to trust in Weil-McLain and their Canadian representatives, Ken Wilson (at Delta B.C.’s Wesmech Sales Inc) and William Sheppard, would be such a disaster.
In 2007, we did a major renovation on our house in Vancouver, Canada. We wanted an efficient boiler that would heat our water as well as our house. Our plumber recommended Weil-McLain, since, as you can see on their web site, the company produces “clean, quiet, dependable, trusted and efficient” boilers.
Our nightmare began shortly after the Weil-McLain CGi-4 boiler was installed. The neighbors complained that the boiler exhaust sounded “like a jet engine.” They couldn’t sleep at night, nor could they get work done, nor could they use their patios and porches. The noise was that disturbing. They called us outside to listen, and in fact they were right. The area between our houses was as noisy as an airport! Worse, the rumbling noise carried right out to the back and front of our houses.
APPALLING SERVICE
When we contacted Weil-McLain Canada to ask for their advice on how to remedy the problem, they were no help at all. Instead of suggesting ways to deal with the noise, we got this baffling note, in April 2008, from their distributor, Ken Wilson at Wesmec Sales:
” Where are you located?
The unit has not been “Red-Tagged”?
Any modifications to the Boiler or Vent must be “Field Approved”
Regards,.”
That’s all he wrote. Red-Tagged? Field Approved? What the heck?
It became clear, after more requests for help and clarification, that Ken Wilson and Weil-McLain would not do anything unless the boiler noise actually exceeded the legal limit in our city. It didn’t matter how disturbing the noise was. It didn’t matter that we had spent thousands of dollars on their product. They were going to stonewall us unless the government declared their boiler over the legal noise limit.
Our neighbour eventually made a formal complaint to the city. City inspectors found that the Weil-McLain boiler exhaust far exceeded the limit. It was 65 decibels, when the nighttime maximum in Vancouver is 45 dbA. That’s more than 50 percent too loud!
Clearly, the Weil-McLain CGi-4 boiler should not be sold for residential settings. The exhaust is just too loud.
MORE FRUSTRATION
When, in August 2008, we asked Ken Wilson or Weil-McLain’s William Sheppard to either reduce the boiler noise, replace the boiler with a quieter model of equal or greater efficiency, or refund the cost of the boiler and assist in the cost of replacement, we got a most unhelpful response.
The company sent out an engineer, Godfrey Nash. Rather than coming up with a real solution to the noise problem, he instead made a list of installation irregularities. We got a letter in September saying that the company would take no responsibility unless these irregularities were taken care of. Only one of these had anything to do with noise:
“The combustion supply air duct…was found to be resting on top of the boilers’ exhaust fan motor, which places undue strain on the fan motor housing and may cause premature failure of the fan motor and must be rectified. It may also cause excessive noise and vibration to be transmitted to the outside through the combustion air intake opening.”
It was clear to anyone looking at the unit that this was not the source of noise. In fact, a heating contractor who came to help us with the noise told us that he no longer installs Weil-McLain boilers, specifically because of the noise problem.
DANGEROUS LACK OF COMMUNICATION
Curiously, the Weil-Mclain engineer also pointed out that the boiler exhaust could create buildup of dangerous fumes, since the houses were less than 6 feet apart. We wondered why Weil-McLain representatives did not bother to mention this on earlier visits to the site! Apparently the company’s boilers have had problems like this before.
After months of frustration, after nearly destroying our relationship with our neighbours, after thousands of dollars, we are now borrowing $7,500 in order to replace the boiler with a quieter model from another manufacturer.
We can only encourage other homeowners to be very careful when selecting a boiler. The noise is a concern—but the level of service you get from your manufacturer is equally important.
Sincerely,
Charles Montgomery
Vancouver, Canada
PS: here’s another unhappy Weil-Mclain site: Buying Weil-Mclain was a mistake
Please share your concerns with us, below.
Weil Mclain Boiler Hell 
Sounds like a terrible experience. I’m surprised that your plumber suggested them. Good to know to avoid them.
Tom Kelly
Wood Fireplace Insert
No wonder the neighbours complained about the noise.
I spent one night at Charles house and was unable to get a minutes sleep due to the noise from the boiler
Why couldn’t weil-McLean do something to correct it.???
I would not recommend the company to my worst enemy.
Frances.
I’m appalled at this story. What makes it particularly upsetting is that it sounds like Charles went out of his way to find something that is environmentally sustainable — to do good — and got conned by a company that couldn’t care less. Well, there is a remedy for companies that produce products that significantly fail to meet expectations, and that pose health or environmental health problems — it’s called a class action lawsuit. Perhaps Weil-McLain should think about that.
yikes. if this is a reputable company that manages to satisfy some customers with their products, why are they not taking care of this problem? it seems a very poor business decision, as complaints such as this live forever on the web. i mean, doesn’t every homeowner by now research potential issues with expensive items beforehand? stories like this will haunt their sales in the future.
i hope you have better luck with the new product, and i hope that weil-mclain gets to regret their actions.
This is outrageous. As someone who has had to deal with maintenance of an older house, I am concerned with finding retailers and service people who will provide the best products and the best service, and this sounds like some of the worst I’ve heard of.
If they don’t give you the kind of commonsense help that one would expect of the suppliers or manufacturers of an expensive home product to be part of one’s life for years, I would certainly never buy their boiler. Sounds like they know their product is no good and are just trying to pass the buck.
What a nightmare! Do the company’s PR people know about this? This sounds like a problem where the cost of fixing it is so much less than the long term loss due to bad press. It’s puzzling that they are so unresponsive.
It also brings home the point that any purchase of major house components should be preceded by a quality check on the web. Any future homeowners looking for a furnace will come across this complaint when they do their research.
The people that live in the house mentioned above are good people. Bad things happened, but a good fight is always worth it! I am forwarding this to a VERY knowledgeable bunch of people that work or going to work in the sustainable building industry. Beware Weil-Mclain, you don’t know who you are dealing with!
The people that live in the house mentioned above are good people. Bad things happened, but a good fight is always worth it! I am forwarding this to a VERY knowledgeable bunch of people that work or going to work in the sustainable building industry. Beware Weil-Mclain, you don’t know who you are dealing with!
Thanks for the warning. Olsen On Your Side – CVT News Vancouver would be interested in this story.
What has happened to customer service and company accountability? As a member of the Greater Vancouver Home Builders’ Association (the western chapter of the Canadian Home Builders’ Association) I will surely forward this on to them. Hopefully they will choose to post something on their website and/or provide some warning to our 300+ local builder/designer members. Even better if they post a warning through the national association! No guarantee but worth a try to save other home owners from the horrors of what you experienced.
Very unfortunate. Noise pollution is a very big problem. A proplem like this should be addressed by manufactures because it is the right thing to do not to mention to idetnify the problem: instalation vs design problem. Consumers will make other choices. I hope it gets resolved quickly and at minimum inconvenience.
Power to the people.
I’m so glad to have found your website as I am in the middle of a 4,500 square foot renovation and am searching for reliable, energy-efficient products…. but I LIKE my neighbors and I LIKE my sleep!
Caveat emptor!
I had an Ultra 230 installed almost three years ago and love it. The install took a while (one guy), but it let me follow along (I had printed out the installation manual) each night to confirm that he was doing the installation according to WM (he was and the install is beautiful). I did have some questions about setup and venting so gave WM a call. They were very responsive and helpful. One of their engineers even called me a few weeks later to make sure I was happy with the unit.
Sorry you had a bad experience, but based on my experience I would recommend WM without reservation.
Although my Weil-McLain boiler story is of a different model, I wish I had investigated a little betterbefore purchasing mine.
My boiler Model P-SGO-6 has been replaced 3 times since the inital instalation 5 years ago. Thes boilers have only lasted from 1 1/2 years to less than 2 months. The water jackets seem to crack easily. This last one installed, Weil-____! will not warranty thier product. They are sending a Rep to investigate our problem. From what I have read, They will not burden the blame. “Its sombody or some other circumstance thats the problem.”
The first claim was settled by our home owners ins. We were told not to try to file a claim with them again , we would be canceled.
Aparently they were stonewalled by Weil ——! also.
Yes, please Santa help us!
John
frenie7@comcast.net
my neighbor has a ultra 105 that some times just dies (lock outs) it has the magnet kit installed to fix this problem so called low power dips. but still does nothing. it also howls like a dog on startup and low baseline fire. the control has ben recalbrated to rase the rpm (speed) and fireing rate. but its still howls at the moon. AND THIS IS A GOOD INSTALL
I’m not surprised that poor Charles had such a bad experience. I’ve heard that the company in question is awful, to say the least. I’ve also heard that the engineer they sent to Charles, one G. Nash, has a rather dubious reputation. I have heard from people who have had plenty of bad service from this guy. Somehow, it’s hardly surprising that he was involved.
A company is only as good as their product and their employees. Clearly, in both cases, they were horrible…
k0ZYbo pfuetaezdfmn, [url=http://eozsetxxdzwo.com/]eozsetxxdzwo[/url], [link=http://dqydagggkfhs.com/]dqydagggkfhs[/link], http://kfgcwksinmzu.com/
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=011181623511421801838:jo0osqswr6g
http://www.google.com/coop/profile?user=011181623511421801838&leftnav=no_dir ectory
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=011181623511421801838:n0bdrak6lrm
http://www.bebo.com/SanekK
http://www.bebo.com/DiscountV
http://www.bebo.com/EmilV74
I am presently having a Weil.. installed into my home and after two tries I do not have hot water.That is four days and a weekend I get about two litres and it goes cold.I would really appreciate anyone pointing me in the right direction to get the proper piping,installation.I really think the boss is trying to save a few dollars of my money and not zone the tank If someone has one that works,I have done lots of plumbing and this is not deep science.I am not ready to condemn the unit yet,I do have heat in southern Ont.many thanks
let me know what unit you have and I will give you my professional advice.
I have been a Weil McLain dealer for 39 years and swear by them.
Art
valenzaplumbing@hvc.rr.com
GOOD NEWS:
I’ve just read this now, so I’m afraid I was not part of the conversation when you were in the middle of your troubles in 2008. However, we had an identical problem with our Weil McLain Gold CGI furnace that had been pre-installed in a new home we bought around the same time. The exhaust noise sounded like a jet engine, neighbors next door could not sleep. And, yes, our neighbor (who are still friends, thank goodness) complained to the city. This actually proved to be helpful as the noise level evidence documented by city inspectors was very useful in getting corporate attention focused in resolving it.
After making some initial inquiries, we were contacted by G. Nash who worked with us to resolve the problem. I have to say, that Mr. Nash treated our problem in a courteous, efficient, and highly professional manner. Using the city report to supplement his own observations, he not only documented our problem thoroughly, he escalated our noise issue to head office, keeping us informed at all stages of resolution. My experience with him was very positive.
At any rate, what Weil-McLain came up with was a specialized muffler. It was installed at the end of the exhaust pipe inside the home, with a short custom vent that replaced the pre-existing one outside. The solution has been in place for over a year now, and I am happy to report that the furnace is now both efficient, and very quiet.
I believe our home was one of the first in Vancouver to have this muffler installed, so perhaps some of you already have had a similar unit added to your Weil-McLain furnace. If, however, you are having similar difficulties and don’t know who to turn to, please feel free to post a message here with your email address. Mr. Nash has since moved on from the company, but I’ll be happy to give you some contacts who may be able to help.
– Stan
P.S. A final word about G. Nash: In reference to some comments made here, I strongly believe that a company engineer would have been remiss in his duties if he did not observe and report installations that failed to meet manufacturer specifications/best practices, and their potential consequences. This not only protects the company, it’s in my best interest that this be documented thoroughly. Folks should also realize that company representatives are not necessarily engineers. If Mr. Nash observed something that they didn’t, it’s his job to do so. How a company acts on this information in relation to other matters, such as the noise problem we had, is not necessarily a decision that can be made by a field engineer. However, I fully understand why a company such as Weil-McLain must be able to protect itself against future claims.
In the end, I’m glad Weil-McLain did address our noise issue. Clearly, at the time they worked with us, the company understood that this was a significant issue that needed to be corrected. Hopefully, they will soon address yours, if they have not done so already.
I just had a weil mclain boiler put in this week – it seems well installed, but it makes a heck of a lot of noise when the pump is running. I’m not sure what to do, but it is so loud it woke up my son who sleeps on the third floor (the boiler is in the basement). The neighbours, I’m sure, will not be pleased as there house is only 10 feet away and their kitchen window is only twelve feet from the exhaust….please someone help me find a solution such as the exhaust muffler mentioned. Do I just phone the company???
I just had a weil mclain boiler put in this week – it seems well installed, but it makes a heck of a lot of noise when the pump is running. I’m not sure what to do, but it is so loud it woke up my son who sleeps on the third floor (the boiler is in the basement). The neighbours, I’m sure, will not be pleased as there house is only 10 feet away and their kitchen window is only twelve feet from the exhaust… Do I just phone the company???
Ihave the same problem although I am power venting through the chimney. I can hear the Weil McLain that is installed in the basement on my second flor bedroom.
Any suggestions on what I should do?
We had a Weil-McLain boiler installed somewhere between 10-15 yrs. ago. Every year we have had a problem with it and had to call the people who installed it. The last problem, about two weeks ago, was water coming out of the intake valve. Water was constantly coming out of this valve and leaving a lot of water on the floor. Valve is not right, it is a pipe. We are totally disgusted with this boiler.
I have a 5 year old Weil McLain Ultra 230 in our home and have to say that overall, we are very happy with the unit. This unit replaced a 50 year old boiler that was about 4X the size of a front load washing machine.
We used a professional contractor to install it and we had little trouble with it until late February when it went “off line” and refused to fire. Facing -29C outside temps we called for after hours service at $120.00/hour to have the problem corrected.
The service tech was not sure what the problem was and drove to the wholesaler to get a main circuit board. After the replacement failed to solve the problem (by now it was 11:30 pm), the tech determined it might be the exhaust blower assembly. He didn’t have one, but returned the next day with an exhaust blower assembly. Once this was installed the boiler fired up and has worked fine.
Now the “kicker” to all of this is that while the manufacturer covered the cost of the part ($1,250.00), the contractor billed me 6.5 hours ($780.00) to install it. I spoke to Weil McLain today and they said that the Ultra series model is unable to tell the tech that the particular part (blower/tachometer) has failed, forcing the technician to replace parts until one of them fixes the problem.
I’m not sure what other manufacturers do, but this is appalling to me. Once this boiler is out of its home owner’s 5 year no cost coverage (parts and labour), if anything significant fails, it would be better to replace the boiler with a new one (they cost about $4,500.00 plus installation, which I’m sure can be accomplished in one day – 8 hours) and pick up what is snow a 10 year comprehensive home owner warranty.
I believe I will get part of the labour cost back, but for those looking at new boilers, check the warranty out carefully and make sure you have a skilled installer who stocks parts on your speed dial if your boiler fails (as it always does) when it is cold out.
Finally, we elected to vent our new Weil McLain boiler through the existing chimney system. It keeps the fumes and noise away from the ground. I don’t recall ever hearing any noise outside at all from it.
my 2009 wm WTGO3 is also a louder. From the outside is not bad because my neighbors are 100ft away. But inside the basement where it installed, the noice is so anoying, and the room above it when it runs it sounds just like army tanks come to town. Outside patio near the base of the chimney we also experience noice casts down from the exaust. This new boiler is louder tan my 45 years old that it replaces. I believe it is the high pressure (140psi) pump they put in there that makes the sound gust.
If you are looking to replace your furnace with WM, makesure your investigate the noice issue..
Please post a feedback comment on this.
They don’t give a damn what consumers think. as long as they are still making bucks out of us. “Deja vue” is around the corner for this company – just like GM went bankrup because they made craps that they refused to correct. In this day and age with fast mean to communicate like social media outlets, bad companies will go to hell faster then they think.
The Weil-McLain Ultra 230 has now been in my house for two weeks and still the contractor hasn’t been able to solve the noise problem — not the initial noise at the vent site (which is not desirable but doesn’t go on and on). My noise problem is inside the house just above the boiler (which is in the basement), and that makes the dining room on the first floor and one side of the bedroom above on the second floor miserable. The drone starts after the start-up and continues until the thermostat setting is reached or I in desperation just turn the thermostat off.
Okay, why this noise? Changing the circulators didn’t solve it. Now, when I go down to the basement and listen I hear the noise within the Ultra 230 itself, and that noise travels on up through that side of the house and only that side of the house.
Either there is something wrong with this boiler (is it a “lemon”?) or there are other brands that don’t drone this way.
I will try to get the contractor to understand the source of the noise (they do hear it up on the first and second floors of the house).
Please let me know if anybody else has encountered similar problem and how it was resolved.
The CGi boiler has a decibel rating of 70 (normal conversations are around 60-70 decibels, a telephone dial tone is 80 decibels). Will this be louder then your natural draft (boiler without fan assist)? Yes! It is a mechanical piece of equipment. Will it or rather should it sound like a “jet engine”? No!
Those who are noise sensitive should think twice about this boiler. But I do not think your average person would notice/care.
As for the “boiler hell” that this person went through, my bet would be that the installation was poor. I have dealt with Weil McLain (as well as other boiler manufacturers) before and I have always been quite impressed.
I do not doubt that this person had a bad experience, but also keep in mind that is what these forms are all about. Very few people post the positive experiences they have had.
As for the Ultra boilers, I have installed 100’s and even have one in my own home. If it is making noise there is an issue. They are extremely quiet, efficient, reliable boilers. If there is an issue I bet that poor installation practices are at play.
My advice… whatever boiler brand you install check with the manufacturer for contractors that have specific training on the boiler you are buying. In this case, contact Weil McLain directly before making the purchase to see if they have a list of preferred contractors in your area.
I feel bad for these people, but in my experience this is not the norm for Weil McLain.
To boiler Hell person: I just had a CGI-4 installed in my home and am quite impressed with it’s performance. I can already tell that it is running less than our old unit thereby using less gas. Oh, and it’s QUITE!!! I think that Mr, or Ms Boiler Hell just had a piss poor installation. That combined with their house being like 6″ from the neighbors made for the bad experience. I think that it’s really horrible of them to bash Weil McLain for what was obviously a mistake on their part for choosing Ray Charles to do the install.
daily link building service…
[…]Our terrible experience with Weil-McLain « Weil Mclain Boiler Hell[…]…
I had a CGI-3 boiler installed for a new addition to my house. I have to concur that they boiler sounds like a jet when heating and wakes my family up on the second floor even though the boiler is in the basement. Weil-Mclain should have to live with this piece of crap. Maybe then their engineers would do a better job. I would never buy another one and am considering replacing this piece of junk. After talking with them they have no answers to solve the noise problem.
I also have a Goodman hot air furnace for the main house and you can’t even tell if it is running other than the main fan running. Maybe they should take lessons.
Have you ever considered publishing an ebook or guest
authoring on other websites? I have a blog centered on the same ideas you discuss and would really like to
have you share some stories/information.
I know my audience would value your work. If you’re even remotely interested, feel free to send me an e-mail.
We’re a group of volunteers and opening a new scheme in our community. Your site provided us with useful information to work on. You’ve done an impressive process and
our entire community can be thankful to you.
Regards,